Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V11_2/V11_271.TXT

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Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #271

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 11 : Issue 271

Today's Topics:
           Re: space news from March 5 AW&ST, etc.
              Re:  SPACE Digest V11 #256
               Graduate Schools
       Funding space travel with tourists and business travel?
              Re: Fermi Paradox
            SPACE Digest V11 #267
        Listening to the Star (was RE: Drake Equation)
       Re: Drake Equation (was Re: Interstellar travel)
             Censored April Fool Article
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 90 11:53:20 GMT
From: rochester![e-mail]  (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: space news from March 5 AW&ST, etc.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:

>[Flight International, 28 Feb:]
>
>Visual inspection of LDEF turned up many micrometeorite/debris craters,
>some substantial.  Atomic-oxygen erosion was serious, especially in the
...
>put throughout.  Copper and silver coatings had oxidized, to the point
>where thin ones often disappeared completely.  Paint samples had been
>darkened considerably by ultraviolet.  A micrometeorite collector lost
>most of its thermal blanketing to oxygen erosion.  A particular puzzle
>is discoloration of "reflecting materials such as Teflon" [I assume
>they mean Teflon coated with something].

I heard a story on CBC radio's "Quirks and Quarks" program about
atomic oxygen damage of satellites.  They were interviewing a
Canadian expert who said he was quite concerned about the silver-teflon
thermal blankets on HST.  He said he thought they would degrade
in a year or two.  Depressing, if true.

    Paul F. Dietz
    [e-mail]

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date:     Mon, 16 Apr 90  08:05:50 EDT
Subject:  Re:  SPACE Digest V11 #256

> Subject: Re: Interstellar travel
>
> The chances
> for intelligent life are highly controversial:  theoretical arguments
> suggest that it should be common, but the Fermi Paradox observes that
> we should have had visitors by now in that case.  That's an unsolved
> puzzle at present.
>
Werner von Braun said, "to presume that we are the only intelligent beings
in that vast immensity [the known universe] is the height of human presump-
tuousness." He was wrong. To presume that a race of beings that had learn-
ed to cooperate sufficiently to make space travel a working reality in their
civilization (unlike in ours where it is a pipe dream), and that had mast-
ered mathematics, physics, materials science, and the esoteric forms of
propulsion necessary to travel between the stars would be at all interest-
ed in visiting a planet where there has been continuous armed conflict for
the past two hundred years, and become involved with the insane beings who
practice that armed conflict is the HEIGHT of human presumptuousness.

> >2. I don't see mankind inventing practical anti-matter propulsion or
> >whatever the current idea is in the next century or two.

Considering the depletion of the ozone layer, pollution by nonbiodegradables,
the greenhouse global warming effect due to the combination of increasing
use of fossil fuels and deforestation of the major tropical rain forests,
the wanton proliferation of nuclear weaponry among nations of religious fan-
atics as well as here in a nation of madmen, the ever-increasing background
radiation level due to BOTH nuclear power stations, and nuclear weapon-grade
fissionable material production facilities, and the ABSOLUTELY uncontrol-
lable waste products they produce, I DO NOT SEE MANKIND IN THE NEXT CENTURY.
>
> >4. Even if it had the fuel to return, how would it find the Earth again,
> >since it is not exactly
> >    standing still, and may have moved unpredictably due to passing
> >stars, black holes, etc...
>
If you were among the crew of an Earth-originated interstellar flight,
and made it successfully off this planet of pollution, and warfare, and
filth, and disease, and death from violence, and where lying and deceit
are the only true religion, and made it safely to another planetary
system where there was either the possibility of human settlement, or
the presence of indigenous intelligent life, WOULD YOU COME BACK? It
is to laugh.

> UFOs unquestionably exist; remember that those initials stand for Unidentified
> Flying Object, note the "U" part in particular.

The "U" should more properly stand for one of, Unbelievable, Unthinkable,
Uninspired, Unpractical, Unimaginable, Unrealistic, Unfathomable, etc.

When considering reports of UFOs, one must bear in mind that they are the
reports of the very ignorant, the seekers after publicity-related wealth,
the very very lonely (in the case of women who claim sexual relations
with space aliens), and the deranged (ranging from the slightly to the
extraordinarily). It is far more likely that 99.99999% of all so-called
sightings are fabrications of members of the above-mentioned groups, and
the remaining .00001% are misunderstood natural phenomena.

> (Actually, even we know of theoretical ways to go
> places by means other than raw velocity -- e.g., general-relativistic
> space warps -- even though right now we have no idea how such a thing
> could be made practical.)
>
One of the major problems with humankind's efforts at space travel, is
that people can no longer distinguish between what is real and what is
the creation of comic book artists and sci-fi writers. Knowing of some-
thing that was proposed by either category of fantasizer mentioned, does
not mean that it can ever be a practical reality. In the early 1950s, a
representative from General Motors came to my grade school and showed
us a film of a very, very experimental car, with tailfins like an air-
plane, and propelled by a jet engine. He told us that this beautiful
fantasy would be travelling the roads of these United States by 1975.
The name of that super-experimental car was the Buick LeSabre. The
reality? In the 1970s General Motors did indeed put a model called Le
Sabre on the roads of America. It was a gas-guzzling, lead-belching,
hydrocarbon-pollutant producing steel garbage can just like every
other American car. So much for fantasy-produced futures. Reality
is the only reality.

                                               Dardin Valpar
                                          aka  Marc Arlen
                                               AZM@NIHCU

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 90 16:24 CST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Graduate Schools

Greetings.  I am an Electrical Engineer pondering a Masters degree.
Does anyone out there know anything about the graduate engineering programs
at any of the following schools:

  > University of Tennessee Space Institute
  > Marquette University
  > University of Wisconsin - Madison

Statistics, stories, facts, and rumors are all welcome.

Thanks in advance,

George K. Ott  University of WI - Madison High Energy Physics Dept.

[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 90 20:09:35 GMT
From: maytag!looking![e-mail]  (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Funding space travel with tourists and business travel?

What are the latest cost estimates for a linear accelerator launch
facility?  A reasonable facility needs to be about 1,000 KM long, as
I recall.   Could it be built for $100 milllion dollars per km, or
100 billion dollars?

If so, it might be worth considering that you could get a lot of revenue
from it through *sub-orbital* travel, mainly travel to the far east (Japan,
China, Hong Kong) but also possibly to Europe and Moscow when it opens up.

Is this possible?  Let's say the launcher is located a reasonable short
hop from Los Angeles by air, and that it goes 1000 km to the east.
(It's easier to launch to the east).   Does it have to be built on the
plains, or does it make sense to float it over water and keep it straight
with computers and laser sights.

Anyway, the point is that no matter where it is in the USA, it makes sense
for anybody going to the far east to use it, even if they have to fly for
4 hours to get to the terminal.  You thus get (if your price is right) all
the traffic from North America to the far east.   I think that's about
20,000 passengers per day, and it would grow with the speed increase.

20,000 passengers per day at $500 per flight means ten million dollars per
day, or over 3 billion per year.  That would not pay off the launcher any
time soon, but it would do a lot to help.  (Unless you think you can build
it for 10 million/km, in which case it pays it off real fast.)

(20,000 passengers is one 40 passenger shuttle every 2 minutes for 18
hours/day)

The rest of the money comes from the other uses, such as space launch,
of course.  The military would also like the ability to pre-empt the
thing and send a space para-trooper force anywhere on the planet within
90 minutes.   They would pay lots for that.

The big problem is getting the shuttles back.  The ideal solution is
to have three launchers -- one in the USA, one in Australia (or if you
float it, Japan) and one in Europe/Africa depending on available land or
the ability to float it.   Then you just re-use the launch capsules,
needing only to get them from the destination airport to the local
terminal.  (Probably with stop-on engines of some kind.)

This speed might increase the volume of passengers.  If you could move
100,000 passengers  (100 passenger shuttle every minute) in a more global
economny -- and why not when it takes only 2 hours -- you might see the
thing pay for itself just with sub-orbital traffic.


(I'm assuming that while in the atmosphere you can use drag to diflect
your course sufficiently to aim at any destination roughly along the path.)
--
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473

------------------------------

Date: 17 Apr 90 02:52:14 GMT
From: cs.utexas.edu!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu![e-mail]  (Drew Burnett)
Subject: Re: Fermi Paradox

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael Woodhams) writes:
>In radio waves the earth is VERY visible. Radio telescopes are very
>sensitive and our radio and radar emission very powerful. I suspect that
>anyone in the galaxy pointing a radio telescope in our direction
>listening to an appropriate frequency (there are a lot of them) would
>detect us. (Once the radio waves have had time to travel there, of
>course.)

   In "Scientific American" (special space issue, April? 90) Carl Sagan and
Frank Drake discussing "Cyclops", a proposed array of 1500, 100 meter,
radio telescopes linked by a 'large' computer system.  "Cyclops would be
capable of detecting such relatively weak signals as the internal radio-
frequency communications of a civilization as far away as several hundred
light years."  (quoted without permission).  Hence, with Cyclops, it would seem
that detecting the actual radio signals shouldn't be too dificult.  The
hard part will be knowing where to look.  If we can accomplish this in the
near future, it would seem that a highly advanced civilization should be
able to locate us.


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Purdue University    |      Drew  Burnett       | Reds :  5 - 0   |
| Computer Science Major | [e-mail] | Sabo : 3 HR's   |
----------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 90 12:26:13 MST
From: Mr John W Shaver <[e-mail]>
Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #267

The B-58's are largely kept in the boneyard at Davis-Monthan AFB, Tucson AZ.  I
 have not looked lately, but most of them are still there.
"

------------------------------

Date: 17 Apr 90 03:40:27 GMT
From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!munnari.oz.au!gwydir!gara![e-mail]  (Philip Nettleton)
Subject: Listening to the Star (was RE: Drake Equation)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 90 10:55:55 EST
From: vn
Subject: Re: Drake Equation (was Re: Interstellar travel)
Newsgroups: sci.space

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Dan Tilque):
> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>*Our* presence
>>as a technological society can readily be detected within a 50ly radius;
>>yet we have found no signs, similar or other, that life exists elsewhere in
>>the universe.
>
> Since we've been listening to the sky at radio frequencies for > 40
> years now and haven't discovered any alien generated signals, it's
> probably safe to say that there are no civilizations like ours within
> that 50 ly radius.  This seems to be better limiting data than the
> results of the Drake equation.
>
>
> ---
> Dan Tilque    --    [e-mail]

The point that people are forgetting is the impracticality of advanced
civilisations using radio signals, especially if they're technologically
advanced enough to have colonised other worlds and thereby need to keep in
contact. We are acting like American Indians a couple of hundred years ago
looking for smoke signals from a neighboring tribe to indicate they're
presense when they're using CB radios.

Assuming that an advanced civilisation exists within 50 light years, the
difference in their technological advancement in relation to ourselves would
probably greatly exceed 100 years (plus or minus). If they are -100 years in
relation to us then they aren't sending radio signals anyway. If they are +100
years in relation to us they are probably sending heaps of stuff but it is
unlikely to be radio signals and we don't even know what we're looking for
(certainly not smoke signals, ie, radio transmissions);

Think just how small a unit of 100 years is in relation to the entire history
of life on Earth (in billions of years). No radio signals in 40 years proves
next to nothing about the existence of life in the Universe, intelligent or
otherwise.

The only real way to find out is to go take a look.

                    Philip Nettleton,
                    Tutor in Computer Science,
                    University of New England,
                    Armidale,
                    New South Wales,
                    Australia.

------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 90 04:38:19 GMT
From: asuvax!mcdphx!udc![e-mail]  (Roger Noe)
Subject: Censored April Fool Article

A couple weeks ago the system on which I usually access USENET news
received the article I've quoted below from its news feed.  From having
access to other news systems, I've learned that a non-local control
message was sent out by a news administrator who was not the article's
author, cancelling the article before it spread very far on USENET.  It
is true that the article was "forged" in the sense that the author made
some attempt to conceal his or her identity and the machine on which
the article originated.  Given recent threads of discussion on these
newsgroups, I found the article amusing and thought others might also.
In the best traditions of USENET anarchy and good April first humor,
I've decided to repost this prank article for everyone's enjoyment.
I've retained the entire text of the original article, but only a few of
the USENET article headers.  Although the article tries to make it appear
at first glance that it was written by Peter Yee at NASA Ames Research
Center, I now know with certainty that it was not.  This won't be as
funny as seeing it without knowing it's an April fool, but it's still
worth a grin or two.
--
Roger Noe               Motorola Microcomputer Division, Urbana Design Center
Phone:  [phone]        1101 East University Avenue, Urbana, IL 61801 USA
Internet:  [e-mail]                 UUCPnet:  uiucuxc!udc!rnoe
Latitude/Longitude:  40:06:55 N./88:11:40 W.

|From: [e-mail] (Peter E. Yee)
|Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,alt.sex
|Subject: NASA Press Conference on ``Polar Foil'' Experiments (Forwarded)
|Date: 1 Apr 90 17:19:23 GMT
|Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
|
|Mike Hunt
|Headquarters, Washington, D.C.                     March 30, 1990
|
|RELEASE:  N90-69
|
|EDITORS NOTE:  NASA PRESS CONFERENCE ON ``POLAR FOIL'' EXPERIMENTS
|
|     News media are invited to a press conference Monday, April 2
|beginning at 10 a.m., at which NASA Administrator Richard H. Truly
|and a panel of NASA life sciences experts will respond to questions
|on the recently acknowledged ``Polar Foil'' experiments undertaken
|in past years by space shuttle crews.
|
|     Polar Foil is the computer-generated designation for the series
|of experiments in human sexuality which NASA astronauts have conducted
|in orbit on space shuttle missions.  In response to widespread public
|speculation and official queries from members of Congress, NASA this
|week revealed the nature and extent of these experiments.
|
|     This experiment is one of a group in which NASA life scientists
|are attempting to understand all aspects of extended human presence in
|a microgravity environment.  Just as careful study has been devoted to
|human adaptations to sleeping, eating and drinking, and the collection
|and disposal of bodily wastes in this environment, it is anticipated that
|astronauts may choose to engage in sexual activities during any protracted
|earth orbital or interplanetary mission.
|
|     NASA astronauts assigned to mission crews in the past several years
|have volunteered to participate in the experiments.  When both a male and
|a female astronaut on the same mission had volunteered, mission time was
|allocated to accommodate this activity.  As expected, the limiting factor
|on the number of missions in which the experiment could be attempted was
|the number of female astronauts.  Conversely, the limiting factor on the
|number of times the experiment could be performed in a single mission was
|characteristic of the male astronauts.
|
|     These limitations will be addressed in Monday's press conference,
|at which a new astronaut category will be introduced.  NASA will soon
|begin accepting applications for Research Specialist astronauts, which
|will be distinguished from both Pilot astronauts and Mission Specialist
|astronauts.  The prerequisites for Research Specialist positions are
|that the candidate be female, at least 18 years of age, physically
|attractive, possess excellent endurance and flexibility, and moral
|open-mindedness.  Finalists will travel to Johnson Space Center in
|Houston for thorough interviews and examinations, after which the
|Research Specialist astronaut candidates will be selected.  This selection
|process will proceed in parallel with, and separately from, the process
|for the other career astronaut grades.  At some future date, when the
|numbers of male and female astronauts are more nearly even, the Research
|Specialist category is expected to be opened up to male applicants.
|
|     These experiments will continue in the near term with the present
|composition of the astronaut corps.  Since the experiments are no longer
|considered classified, they will receive the same attention as other
|aspects of NASA space shuttle missions.  Negotiations are in progress
|for cable TV operators to carry the NASA Select satellite signal while
|this experiment is being performed.  NASA feels this service will prove
|particularly effective in capturing and holding the public's interest in
|their national space program.
|
|     On a related topic, NASA is considering reactivation of the Citizen
|in Space programs with application to these experiments.  The tentative
|name of the proposed program is Surrogate in Space.  Although not yet an
|officially adopted program, some members of Congress have already suggested
|names of civilian professionals who may become candidates for participation
|in this program.

End of article.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V11 #271
*******************